Menu
Button: Make a Payment Button: Newsletter Mailing List

Icon: Healthcare LawHands-On Experience

Providing legal advice

and services since 1977

More On Removable Or Termination Of Alarm Service - Specifically Fire / See Below For Webinar Topics And Schedule - Be Sure To Register January 24, 2017

**************************************************************************************************
NOTICE:  I am pleased to announce our free webinars for February - March 2017.  
FREE Webinar Series "All You Need To Know About" ... alarm industry issues. 
Register for one or all.  Each presentation scheduled for half hour to hour. See below for schedule and registration links.
**************************
MORE ON REMOVABLE OR TERMINATION OF ALARM SERVICE - SPECIFICALLY FIRE FROM JANUARY 13, 2017 ARTICLE
**************************
Ken,
    Our friends at the City of Phoenix require a demolition permit to remove a dialer.  I ran into this exact problem a few years ago.  We had a radio transmitter that we owned that was monitoring a fire/security system for a Credit Union.  Upon the expiration of our Agreement the CU decided to go with another vendor.  We knew this vendor was not licensed to service fire alarm systems.  When we were ready to remove the radio we contacted the City via email.  We informed them that we would no longer be monitoring this customer and we would be removing our radio.  The city wanted us to purchase a permit. When we asked why, they stated it is the only way they know that the system was being decommissioned. We shouldn’t have to pay to retrieve our equipment or notify them. We argued that no one would pay for the permit, and that they would need to file a permit in order to install a new radio or dialer, which was the subscribers responsibility.  If I remember correctly, in the end they gave in and didn’t charge us.  That’s what you get for trying to do the right thing by letting the AHJ know.  May not notify them in the future.
Withhold my name please.
************************
Ken,
    From a governmental perspective Fire Alarm systems fall into two general categories, a) those that are required by a statute, regulation, code, etc. and b) those that are not, for example an insurance company, underwriter, mortgage company, owners choice, etc.  That’s an important distinction as systems required by the government cannot be removed, disabled or otherwise made inoperative without permission from the applicable government agency.  There are cases where a required system is no longer required, however, and can be removed or reconfigured. For example the NJ Uniform Construction Code/Rehabilitation Subcode contains a provision wherein a system may be removed where the hazard no longer exists. The best example of this is are data centers that contain fire detection and clean agent suppression systems where a corporate data center has been eliminated and the data storage relegated to the cloud.  Once the data center and all its equipment removed what’s the hazard?  The system should be able to be removed and rightfully so.  Another example is a windowless basement that is no longer windowless because exterior access opening have been provided; again the hazard has been eliminated.
    In either case a permit is required to install, modify or remove a fire alarm system. The difference, is do I need permission? if its required, you do, and the AHJ can deny the permit if they feel the system is still required and the system must be maintained operable..  If its not a required system then you do not permission to remove it, just a permit.
    Hope that helps,
John Drucker, CET
Assistant Construction Official
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Electrical Subcode Official
Building Inspector
Borough of Red Bank
Red Bank, New Jersey
****************************
Ken
    Remembering the reason we have permits, licenses and insurance ((And you)) is a reminder to tread lightly.
    Because our subscriber wants us to notify the insurance carrier of an ACTIVE SYSTEM we would also send a letter advising the Customer sent us the attached letter requesting removal of our equipment and termination of monitoring.
    We would then notify the AHJ of the same request. ((It may be that the subscriber decided our system was too expensive and decided to get a cheaper replacement company.)
    If he did then the AHJ is correct. Public Safety would require the new company provide FIRE DETECTION by PULLING A PERMIT and having the REPLACEMENT SYSTEM INSPECTED AND APPROVED per whatever terms the AHJ dictates. (Within reason and code requirements of course).
    Just a thought from out in the cold...
Joel Kent
FBN
**************************
Ken
    You have to be talking about Florida.  
One cannot think about farting without a license in Florida (unless you do not fart for compensation) and one certainly cannot fart without a permit..!!
    So... with that being said; you can't even change out a board without contacting the local fire inspector.........so, I believe in florida you are right in both cases.
    Other states; completely different...no permits.
Mike
CSS
**********************
RESPONSE
**********************
    The issue is obviously not limited to Florida and probably applies everywhere, though AHJ enforcement may be quite different.  The issue for the alarm industry, particularly the fire alarm industry, is the conflict between the Agreement with the subscriber and the law or AHJ rules.  
    Let's look at a scenario that raises lots of troublesome issues.  You have a straight Fire All in One Lease.  You have the right to remove it when the agreement is over.  You don't lease?  OK, well the Commercial Fire All in One provides that you own all programming, so when the services are over per the contract you can terminate monitoring and refuse to provide any codes or programming information, especially if the subscriber failed to keep the contract for its full duration.
    You know there was a permit required when you installed the fire alarm.  You know that you [or someone else] has been inspecting the fire alarm and filing those inspections with the AHJ.  You've been monitoring the fire alarm, probably through your central station, and the AHJ knows who is providing the monitoring.  
    If a permit and approval was required to put the system in than you should assume that a permit may be required to remove the system or discontinue the monitoring service.  I don't think you'd have to continue inspection service or repair service because that would definitely be the subscriber's responsibility and that's who would get fined.  
    Let me raise the stakes a bit.  You decide to follow the contract terms and remove the system or render it inoperable or terminate monitoring, without a permit of notice to the AHJ, inviolation of statute or AHJ regulations.  I see 3 issues:

    The Fire All in One provides that the subscriber will indemnify you for claims and specifically for fines and permit costs, so that might work.  But you have possibly violated a statute, maybe one that comes with criminal consequences.  The Fire All in One also implies or express states that you will comply with AHJ requirements, albet at the subscriber's expense.  But if you don't comply and that's what causes the fine it is questionable whether you will be indemnified.  Sure, if the subscriber directed you to remove the equipment or discontinue monitoring that is different, but that's not how it usually goes down.
    Well, looks like just one more sticky issue to worry about and keep us lawyers busy.

                                  WEBINARS:  Sign up for any or all of the webinars that interest you.

FREE Webinar Series "All You Need To Know About" alarm industry issues. 
Register for one or all.  Each presentation scheduled for half hour to hour.  Not recorded.

*************************
Title: All You Need To Know About electronic contracts for the alarm industry
When: February 2, 2017 at noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about electronic alarm contracts, execution and delivery. Introduction to SedonaOffice's eForms service.
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers
Presented by: Michael Marks 440-804-4517 SedonaOffice michael@perennialsoftware.com
Register here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/6112404321829619713
*************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Preparing Your Company For A Sale
When: February 7, 2017 at 12 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about preparing your company for sale
Who should attend: Alarm company owners
Presented by: Kelly Bond, Alarm Capital Alliance kelly.bond@alarmcapital.com
Register here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/8406180190928568833
****************************
Title: All You Need To Know About PERS - Personal Emergency Response Service
When: February 8, 2017 at noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: the state of the PERS industry, demographics here now and ahead, financial and business models, PERS solutions available, mobile PERS and where this will likely end up in the near future. Introduction to Essence-USA 's Smart Alerting and partnership with Affiliated Central Station.
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, sales staff
Presented by: Josh Locke, Director of Sales Essence-USA.com JoshLo@Essence-USA.com  734.667.5958 cell:  734.709.5609
Register here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/2770642138855812865
************************
Title: All You Need To Know About consumer alarm contracts
When: February 9, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: What makes consumer contracts different and compliance issues.
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, sales staff
Presented by: Ken Kirschenbaum, Esq.
Register here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/9083897168057308673
********************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Automatic Renewal Provisions in Alarm Contracts
When: February 15, 2017 at noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: The why, where and how of automatic renewal provisions in alarm contracts
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, sales staff
Presented by: Ken Kirschenbaum, Esq.
Register here:    https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/3498770624606417921
*************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Video Surveillance
When: February 16, 2017 at noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: Discuss latest in video surveillance equipment and services
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, video technicians
Presented by: Ari Erenthal, training manager for IPVM, the leading resource for independent news, reviews, and testing of cameras, VMS, NVRs, and more. (862) 414-3078 ari@ipvideomarket.info
Register here:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/6264618512556065793
********************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Selecting the Right Broker to Sell Your Alarm Business
When: February 23, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about finding the right broker to represent you on the sale of your alarm business
Who should attend: Alarm company owners
Presented by: Ron Davis and Steve Rubin from Graybeards rdavis@graybeardsus.com srubin@graybeardsus.com
Register here:   https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/8548769256865453057
************************
Title: All You Need To Know About modern nationwide central station operations and how to select the best central station for your needs
When: February 24, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about what you should expect from your modern nationwide central station and how to select the best central station for your needs
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, sales staff
Presented by: Morgan Hertel from Rapid Response MHertel@rrms.com
Register here:   https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/507826318172222465
************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Fire Alarm Systems and Taking Over Fire Alarm Systems
When: March 1, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about issues to consider when installing, servicing or inspecting fire alarm and when taking over an existing system
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, technician managers
Presented by: Jeff Zwirn JeffZwirn@alarmexpert.com
Register here:   https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/4756737271107996417
****************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Standard Fire Protection All in One Agreement Covering Installation, Inspection, Service of Sprinkler System, Portable Extinguishers, Kitchen Hood, Smoke Detectors, Fire Pump
When: March 2, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about the Standard Fire Protection All in One provisions including scope of work, liability limitations, insurance issues, indemnity issues, how to handle subscribers who won't sign or want you to sign their agreement. 
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, sales managers, sales staff
Presented by: Ken Kirschenbaum, Esq.
Register here:   https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/658147149875346945
**************************
Title: All You Need To Know About Alarm Licensing and Contracts for DIY 
When: March 9, 2017 noon EST
Where: Your computer for power point, live video and call in on computer or phone
What will be covered: General discussion about licensing in the alarm industry for DYI. Different types of licenses, where you need them and how you get them. How and when to use License Holders or Qualifiers for your business and how to become a license holder for a company. Risks involved in not being licensed. Contract you will need for nationwide DIY monitoring agreements.
Who should attend: Alarm company owners, general managers, compliance managers and license holders.
Presented by: Ken Kirschenbaum, Esq.
Register here:   https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/2585168820901654273
***********************