more on fire
June 20, 2012
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Question re electrician requirements in NYC for fire
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Hi Ken,
We love your articles and look forward to them everyday.
For clarification.
In NYC, if a NYS licensed Alarm firm hires an electrician can they use his license for their other workers to do work? And regarding the new requirement for companies to be tested and certified by the NYFD to test and service alarms, do they also need to either be an electrician or have one on staff? Or can the regular NYS alarm license suffice to acquire the certification from the NYFD? And if they require an electrician, does that specific electrician need the NYFD certification or can any employee or licensee get it?
Thanks for everything
CD
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Response
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Ken: Regarding the above question, which you asked me to respond to,
In my opinion:
If you hire an electrical contractor as a subcontractor to do your work YOUR employees are not employees of the electrical contractor and are not covered by the electrical contractor's license.
The new FDNY S-97 does not require your alarm company to have a NYC Licensed Master Electrician license or have one on staff.
You need more than just the state issued "business of installing, servicing or maintaining security or fire alarm systems" license. Go to the FDNY web site for complete instructions.
Alan Glasser, Executive Director
METROPOLITAN BURGLAR & FIRE ALARM ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK, INC.
PO Box 54, Brooklyn, New York 11204-0054
(718) 894-6712
mbfaa.ny@gmail.com www.mbfaa.com
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Answer
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In NYC only an electrician can install commercial fire alarm systems. If new regulations are enacted, which is expected, only electricians and fire department certificate holders can inspect, test and service fire alarm systems. Fire alarm monitoring in NYC already requires a NYC Fire Dept approved central station.
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more Fire comments
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Ken
With regard to Alan Glasser's commentary and concern. If the system was installed to conform with all applicable codes on a specific date, this is where the alarm company responsibility ends. New, updated code changes or client renovations are why annual inspections should be performed.
Nothing stays the same forever.
Respectfully,
John W. Yusza, Jr., President
Monitor Controls, Inc.
Wallingford, CT
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Ken
Mr Diamond in NJ seems to think electricians are the way. I completely disagree and
submit that whenever we get involved with a system done by electricians we spend
considerable amounts of time making necessary changes to meet NFPA codes. This whole
issue smells of unions.
IH
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Ken
Why get all in a knot about the 2011 NEC? (NFPA 70)
MOST states, Connecticut and New York included have not even adopted the 2008 Standard as code. Connecticut is still operating under the 2005 code.
In that code there is an EXCEPTION to the GFCI requirement. Article 210-8.5 EXCEPTION 5 specifically exempts a permanently installed burglar or fire alarm from the requirements of using a GFCI. One can only hope that the same intelligence that granted THAT exception will allow us to circumvent ARC FAULT requirements as well. If a state has NOT YET ADOPTED THE 2011 NFPA70, it cannot be applied at will by building officials. If this happens in Connecticut the office of the State Fire Marshall would like to know so that they may rectify the situation. The AHJ cannot require you to follow a code that is not yet adopted.
Remember that NFPA 70 is a STANDARD until it is adopted by statute. After adoption it becomes CODE.
Ken, please feel free to correct me on that observation if I am wrong.....
Joel Kent
FBN
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Response
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Failure to follow custom and trade can be used as proof of negligence. Failure to follow code is most likely negligence per se - which means you're negligence unless you can show otherwise.