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Honeywell CID 461 code discussion / indemnity from subscriber's perspective
July 12,  2017
Honeywell CID 461 code discussion
    Honeywell has recently added a new feature to its Vista 10P/15P/20P/21P alarm panels (Keypad Lockout *188), where by default, should an invalid attempt to operate the system be made (ie: 30 key presses within 15 minutes without a valid command being executed) a CID event code 461 'wrong code entry' is sent to the monitoring station, and the keypad is locked out for 15 minutes.
    A flustered Subscriber may inadvertently do this, and be unable to disarm their system, causing 461 signal, plus their entry alarm signal, be sent to the monitoring station. Of course, so might a burglar attempting to defeat the system. Or the 461 signal could be sent when the system is already disarmed, and the Subscriber is merely attempting to set some other function.
    This is how such a signal is displayed to our c/s operators: 4611000 MSG Wrong entry code used.
    We have experienced confusion with this signal, and I suspect other stations will too. What to do upon receipt of such a 461 signal?  

  • call premises?  
  • call police?  
  • call call-list persons?  
  • ignore and log-only the signal?  
  • what to do if 'no answer' at premises?  
  • change CID translation to some other description: log only?  
  • analyze other signals received, then decide?

    This function *188 was added by Honeywell, presumably for good reason, and is ON by default. Might it be best (and less likely to cause confusion) to turn this function OFF?
    We are developing our own plans for how to handle these signals, and I am seeking comments by other monitoring stations (and installing dealers) as to how they treat these signals. Hoping to hear your own take on this as well, Ken.
Thank you, 
anon in california
    How are other central stations handling this issue?  How about dealers?
    I'm not technical and limit my response to advising that you can't offer equipment or services to end users that you know will cause confusion.  That's how you get tagged with deceptive business practices complaints, negligence or fraud.  
indemnity from subscriber's perspective
    We are a medium sized regional commercial real estate management firm located in San Diego, CA.  I saw your article on indemnification for alarm monitoring providers.  We are struggling with this as it is now difficult for us to find a fire alarm monitoring company that will agree to indemnify our property owners for their negligence.  In fact, many want the landlord to indemnify the alarm monitoring company for the alarm monitoring companies failures to respond appropriately.  Can you provide us with a company that will provide indemnifications for their errors, negligence etc?
    Here is how I responded to this subscriber
    "Kevin - that is not how it works - the owner indemnifies the alarm company.  There are ways to work out insurance coverage but it will cost your client more money"
    Of course many of you are faced with this issue almost daily.  Not only doesn't your subscriber want to indemnify you, as your contract requires, it wants you to indemnify the subscriber; become the subscriber's co-insurer on that property essentially.
    You don't have to walk away from a customer like this.  You can likely negotiate revisions to your contract that will satify the subscriber and yet still afford you adequate protection from claims.
    You get into a sticky issue like this, give me a call for assistance.  Even if I charge a few bucks it should be worth salvaging the account.  The other alternative is to simply agree to indemnify the subscriber, but that is going to expose you to too much liability.


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Ken Kirschenbaum,Esq
Kirschenbaum & Kirschenbaum PC
Attorneys at Law
200 Garden City Plaza
Garden City, NY 11530
516 747 6700 x 301
516 747 6700
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