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see fire alarm comments below
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Questions:
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Ken,
I am wondering how alarm companies and integrators deal with government entities who will not sign our contracts for Lease, Purchase, Service or Monitoring services? They will only provide a purchase agreement for the installation and/or monitoring but will not sign or commit to the terms of the contract(s) so how are we protected from liability and in the case of a lease system our ownership of the equipment etc.? In the case I am dealing with now it is a Federal government agency but we have run into this with State and local governments as well.
Thank You!
Cory Schott
President
Dehart Alarm Systems, Inc.
Sarasota, FL 34243
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Ken,
Large residential projects have GC’s that insist on every sub contractor signing an agreement for all work performed. Some absolutely refuse to sign our alarm contracts event though we point out that a General Contractors license is not supposed to allow him to Sub Contract to an ACO licensed security firm as in Calif. State License Law Sec 7054.
Can we just sign their Sub Contract during course of construction and then have the client sign our contract at the completion, and if so, what risks do we run?
Thanks for your help.
Paul T. Ott Sr.
Pro-Tech Systems Inc.
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Answer:
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It's a fact of business life some subscribers will not be signing your contracts. There isn't much you can do about it except pass on the job. If the job is small then passing is the right decision - you should not routinely accept subscribers who won't sign your contract.
However, realistically, you don't want to pass up a lucrative opportunity, whether it's a government job or a large institutional or commercial subscriber who offers continuous work or a large project.
You should make every effort to get your contracts signed or incorporated into the subscriber's main contract. By adding "this contract is subject to terms and conditions in Alarm Company's standard alarm contract, attached hereto" you will then have the protection you need. Of course you may not be able to get that provision. It could also be in separate letter signed by the one hiring you.
Even if you do the installation for the GC, for example, you should get the end user subscriber to sign your monitoring and service contract. The end user won't have the same bargaining power as the GC who hired you. Exposure for the installation may actually be less than the exposure you face for monitoring and service, post installation.
You also must be sure that you carry Errors and Omission insurance. If you need a recommendation, give me a call or send a private email. Carrying liability insurance with E&O specific to the alarm industry is essential for your survival in this industry. You need to make sure that your insurance policy does not require you to have an "approved" contract - the one you said you used when you applied for the insurance policy, as a condition of coverage if there is a claim made. Your broker should be able to confirm if that is a requirement - and get that in writing too - just in case.
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Comments on Fire Alarms
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Ken,
In response to the question about when does a burglar alarm become a fire alarm, that happens when a fire detection device is added. Once the system has a dual purpose of detecting both intrusion and fire, it becomes a combination fire alarm system, as defined in NFPA 72. Of course the biggest issue becomes the listing of the panel, most security panels are listed for household fire alarm service. Both the National Electrical Code and the National Fire Alarm Code require equipment to be listed for the purpose for which it is used. Consequently, using a panel with a household fire alarm listing for fire alarm service in any occupancy other than a household, becomes a code violation.
Thanks!
Daniel G. Decker, CFPS, CPP, SET
Safety Systems, Inc.
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Ken:
NFPA 72 applies to ALL FIRE ALARM SYSTEMS.
If it is a RESIDENTIAL SYSTEM than NFPA 72 Chapter 11 applies.
If it is a Commercial system than the appropriate chapter also applies.
NFPA 72 3.3.67.5 DEFINES a LOCAL ALARM SYSTEM for code purposes.
GO to the ESA Web site ( www.alarm.org ) and to the NTS Link for a listing of training courses that may be of help. (Fire, Basic and Troubleshooting)
Joel Kent
NTS Instructor
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Hi Ken,
Does anyone know what license is required to repair NYC fire alarms...?
Thanks
Mike
CSS
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I believe it's the Alarm Installer License issued by NYS.
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Ken,
Yes, it applies. There is no requirement in NFPA 72 for a residential fire alarm to report to a monitoring station. It is permitted, of course, but not required. The lack of off-site reporting does not mean it is not a fire alarm system, and that lack would not exempt it from NFPA requirements.
Keep in mind that the on-site notification (sounders) must be different from a “standard” burglar alarm siren. The local fire alarm sounder must comply with ANSI S3.41. That sound is one-half second on, then one-half second off for three repeats, then a one and one-half second pause, then repeat. Many smoke detectors have that capability built into them if they are properly connected to the alarm panel
Gary Dawkins
Response Center USA
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Ken
NFPA72 always applies when it comes to fire alarms reguardless wether its a residence or commerical building. Smoke detectors must be installed in accordance to NFPA72 guidelines, panel must be listed for residential smokes, ect. Just putting in 3 smoke detectors does not make it comply. Hope this helps.
Kelly Walker S.E.T.
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To Phil:
Is it a residential or commercial application? If resi, do what you want (use Ken's contract to exculpt you from liability for claim as a "fire system," and only to meet customers request. If commercial, check to see what your AHJ accepts. For example, in Los Angeles, CA the fire system MUST be separate from burg, and be submitted, approved, inspected, and signed off by the jrisdiction, no shortcuts, period...CYA (cover your assets)! It should be noted that most AHJ's require this MINIMUM!
M Winger
Martin Security Engineering