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comments on grandfathering fire alarms / on carrying fire arms June 28, 2017

KEN KIRSCHENBAUM, ESQ
ALARM - SECURITY INDUSTRY LEGAL EMAIL NEWSLETTER / THE ALARM EXCHANGE
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comments on grandfathering fire alarms / on carrying fire arms
June 28,  2017
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comments on grandfathering fire alarms from June 15, 2017 article
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Ken
    You shouldn’t need to ask what their requirements are, the codes are published for all to see.    These codes exist so you don’t have to ask for their opinion.   You are the expert, not them.    They have no authority to do anything except to enforce the adopted codes and standards.  The AHJ doesn’t have requirements, the state does.   The AHJ is the enforcement section.    There must be a basis in the code for EVERYTHING they do.  Big city or small, if they are making it up, report it to the state building officials since this is the foundation for graft.
Greg K
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Ken
    Dave Miller hit the nail square on the issue of notice.
    Typically when we talk with an AHJ and reach consensus on his or her interpretation we follow it up with a letter.
    Dear Whomever
Thank you for meeting with our installer -------- on ----------In your conversation we understood you to agree that a proper interpretation would allow us to........XYZ........................and then to Program or set up......BLA BLAH
    If this is not correct please let me know ASAP.
    Chances are this letter will repose in a file but it was sent and should have a paper trail on delivery such as FED EX or UPS delivery with signature.
Joel Kent
FBN
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Ken,
    In response to Greg K.
    Greg, I agree, when the issue is clear in the Code that we can make that call, but there are many grey situations that just have to be addressed by a dialogue with the AHJ.
    I don't agree with reporting an AHJ unless it is really the only resolution you have left.  If you go down that road, you are burning a bridge; and sometimes its okay to burn one, but just know what that can entail for you and your clients.
Thanks.
Dave Miller, SET, Principal
MCG Design Services
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comments on carrying fire arms from June 15, 2017 article
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Ken
    On the question from the 6/15/17 email on whether an alarm company’s E&O policy would cover damage/injury caused by an employee who personally has concealed/carry permit: you’re right, an alarm company’s E&O probably would not want to cover, but a guard company’s policy probably would.  Reason is that standard liability policies exclude ‘expected or intended’ injury, which shooting someone would fall under, but a proper guard policy can give coverage back for this by providing “Assault and Battery” coverage.  The key here is to make sure your policy is tailored to your operations.  Without prior approval, if an alarm company policy underwriter found out the alarm company’s employees were allowed or required to carry weapons as part of the course of their employment it would probably result in the policy being cancelled and the alarm company being referred over to a more expensive guard company insurer for coverage. 
    I think the original question asked though was about the legality, and assuming the alarm company got counsel on how to do this legally, their next step would be to play 20-questions with their insurance broker so they could find out how much extra it would cost to insure armed operations *before* they started performing so they wouldn’t wind up with any surprise responses from their insurer down the road.  We get questions from alarm companies about wanting to add coverage for unique operations somewhat frequently, and tracking down a receptive underwriter can take some work, but it’s doable, and an interesting aspect of the job.
Thanks,
Larry St John, CIC
Eclipse Marketing & Insurance Services
lstjohn@eclipseinsurance.com
707.469.6776 x102
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Ken,
    In California there are provisions for employees carrying firearms exposed while on duty under the licensee’s direction. These are additional qualifications to the minimum A.C.E. credentials the state requires and do not authorize concealed carry or off duty carry. Employers who want to allow employees to carry firearms in California can exert some control over their employees carrying firearms during work hours by requiring Firearms Qualifications credentials for their armed employees. This may also demonstrate some diligence on the part of the employer as the requirements for these credentials are far more industry specific and stringent than the requirements for the concealed carry permits I’m familiar with. While  there is a legitimate concern for liability for allowing your employees to carry firearms, it would seem there’s a potential liability in prohibiting employees from arming themselves. By its nature, our industry works in “bad areas” and at odd hours, and even a service call for a no set condition can unexpectedly escalate into a hazardous situation for the service tech in the shiny white van with lettering bragging about stopping criminals- something I’ve experienced myself. Don’t expect California’s B.S.I.S. to be familiar with these laws if you’re calling to ask about licensees or agents getting these credentials. They’re far more familiar with guards and private investigators than they are with alarm agents.
Arthur S. Dunn, Director
Art Dunn Alarm Company 
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Ken Kirschenbaum,Esq
Kirschenbaum & Kirschenbaum PC
Attorneys at Law
200 Garden City Plaza
Garden City, NY 11530
516 747 6700 x 301
ken@kirschenbaumesq.com
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