comment on Bosch Panels and UL September 29, 2025

KEN KIRSCHENBAUM, ESQ
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comment on Bosch Panels and UL
September 29, 2025

comment on Bosch Panels and UL from article on September 13, 2025

Ken,
   I love these questions, today its about when a panel looses its listing.
   The easy answer out of the box is did you buy a guarantee or insurance policy that it will last for X amount of years? The answer is no. My assembled in Kentucky Ford truck comes with a warrantee not a guarantee.
   But let's look in a little deeper. Code compliant installs are good for the life of the system because it was code compliant on the day it was installed regardless of subsequent changes to the code. The property owner is insulated from future code changes until the use of the building changes or typically a renovation occurs that is more than 50% of the structure. Okay, that covers the system.
   Now lets look at the associated devices for the system. This is the beauty of "cross listed devices", which means that if you install listed smoke detectors for your ABC panel and 10 years later those smokes are no long available, you have a problem unless there was a new model or different model smoke detector that was also "crossed listed" as approved for that panel and system.
   Finally, Ryan mentioned "Bosch" as the manufacturer, but as I understand it a bunch of the old Radionics employees have acquired the rights to the Bosch equipment company and will be back as Radionics soon if not already. I wish them all the successes because they were a great bunch of guys.
Bart A. Didden, President
U.S.A. Central Station Alarm Corp.
Port Chester, NY
Milford, CT
St. Paul, MN
Pasco, WA
877-872-1266
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another comment
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Ken
   I wouldn’t see an issue with that unless the insurance company did and as far as the building department goes, they’ve already approved the system. They’re not coming back to say anything about it and that really is where the problem would come in if there’s a loss and the insurance company found out about it; That might be a problem. Other than that I don’t see any issue.
   I've got systems out there that are what 30 years old and they're still working. I don't know if the listing is gone or not, but I can tell you the manufacturers are no longer in business.
MS

another comment
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Ken
   Many years ago I posed a similar question to UL, I was told, once something is UL listed it remains UL listed.
Jeff
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Response
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   I know I didn't offer much in the way of advice on this question of loss of UL listing. The responses above are correct, but I am not sure they address all the possible issues. UL listed equipment is used in all kinds of alarm systems, intrusion, fire, cameras and access control. It's accurate that you would be compliant installing equipment that met the contract specifications, which may or may not be code compliant - but let's assume it was when installed]. But fire alarms and other types of systems [environmental for example] require inspection. If you know that UL listed equipment, required when installed, has lost its UL Listing then you would need to note that in your inspection report. While it may be that a UL Listing was lost because a manufacturer is no longer in business or didn't pay to keep its UL listings [I am guessing that is required], it may also be that UL pulled the listing because it subsequently found problems and the product no longer met requirements.
   Keep in mind that you may be asked to issue UL listing certificate more than once, perhaps years after the system was installed [again I am guessing] and the equipment would need to be UL Listed when you issue the certificate unless you [very] cleverly worded the certificate as UL Listed at time of installation [again I am assuming you can do that].    If equipment loses a UL Listing because of equipment problems, and you know about it, I think you would need to let your subscribers know, especially if you have a continuing relationship with the subscriber. I am not suggesting you need to notify someone with whom you haven't had contact in years, assuming you even could find those records.
   This question may raise more questions and I'm sure more answers. It sort of is similar to equipment going obsolete or reaching end of life, yet still working. You probably should let your customers know.
   This aligns with best practices anyway, staying in touch with your customers and offering to survey and update systems.

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Ken Kirschenbaum,Esq
Kirschenbaum & Kirschenbaum PC
Attorneys at Law
200 Garden City Plaza
Garden City, NY 11530
516 747 6700 x 301
ken@kirschenbaumesq.com
www.KirschenbaumEsq.com