QUESTION:

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Ken,

 Thanks for the informational emails – great stuff!  Has the topic of customer router settings come up?  We sell a lot of DVRs and do quite a bit of video verification.  In order to get everything to communicate, we often need to make adjustments to the firewall settings in the router.  I'm fortunate to have IT personnel on staff who can help us manage the technical issues – but I'm still concerned that any changes we make (or “require”) could represent a risk to the customer’s network.

 I don't see us getting around the issue easily – as many customers would not opt to buy the video service if the burden of programming the router were to be put on them.  They are mostly small to medium sized businesses without an IT person on staff.  With that in mind – how can we protect ourselves from liability associated with changing router settings?

Dave Hood,

Vice President and General Manager

First Alarm

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ANSWER:

 You connect to your subscriber's computer system and leave yourself open to claims that you caused any computer or Internet issues that arise thereafter.  Your contract can and should address that exposure.  Cyber liability is another issue.  If there's one expert on this issue it's Mike Kelly, so I asked him to respond to this question.    Here is his response:

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  More on Cyber Liability,    When changing  customer's fire wall setting in the router , exposures for the alarm dealer and exposure to the customers and their clients are open for liabilities.  First of all  the book of IP codes & setting kept by the IT tech or alarm dealer is one of the biggest  E&O --- ID theft exposures just waiting to happen.  If this information is stolen, used by a “rogue employee”, or “rogue sub-contractor” unauthorized use of IP address  is  ID Theft and can lead to “Breach of the Network”, and this opens the door for “Failure to Protected the Network”.    This can affect IP gateways to cctv, access control ,monitoring, e-mail & Web Site’s leading to negligence and possibly gross negligence of BOTH the alarm dealer ( IT Tech ) and their customers and their Clients. 

 Safeguards and Risk Management of IP fire wall router codes will be a story we can review all by itself at a later date.  How to protect yourself  from 1st & 3rd party Network Cyber Security Liabilities today is to consider purchasing a IP-e Network Security Insurance Policy.  The policy should have Coverage for Worldwide Liability w-e/E&O , Crime, Property  Media and included Acts of Terrorism.  In-dept information on these exposures and coverage’s can provided by contracting Michael J. Kelly at Michael J. Kelly Insurance Agency –mjk@mjkinsurance.com or 800-329-5355.  

 Thanks to Ken’s newsletter we can all share Q&A that affect the Security Industry today.

Kindest Regards;

Michael J. Kelly

www.mjkinsurance.com

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COMMENTS ON FIRE ALARM QUESTION

There are lots of comments and I tried not to leave anyone out.

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 In reference to the duct detector question:

NFPA 72, 2007, 5.7.4.2.2 states, “Detectors that are installed in the air duct system shall not be used as a substitute for open air protection.” They are there to shut a/c unit down and sound a supervisory only.

John Davis

Director of Operations

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 Ken Regarding the fire alarm question. The primary reason for the duct detector is to shut down the air supply. The notification can be either a fire alarm signal or a supervisory signal at a constantly attended location. Usually the AHJ makes this call. Generally the signal is a supervisory signal to avoid a needless fire alarm activation and evacuation of the mall. 

 

Atlas Alarm Corporation

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Yes and Yes.  I had always thought that the duct detectors should trip the general alarm also however over the past years in the BIG box stores it has become more prevalent that the AHJ does not want them to trip the general alarm.  This is most likely due to the high incidents of false alarms and the difficulty to maintain them, not to mention the mechanical code 602 exception.

 

Mike

CSS

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Ken,

        With respect to the fire alarm question, I would strongly recommend that companies involved in any way with fire alarm system installation, testing and service be familiar with the related codes that define what is and what is not acceptable with respect to fire alarm systems.  The International Mechanical Code has required a supervisory signal for duct smoke detectors for at least the past three code editions, and through an exception the code permits an alarm signal in lieu of the supervisory signal.  So to directly answer the question, yes the duct detector must shut the unit down, no it is not required to sound an alarm signal throughout the premises.

Thanks!

 

Daniel G. Decker, CFPS, CPP, SET

Safety Systems, Inc.

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Ken,

 

In answer to the duct detector question, according to the Code, duct detectors do no need to generate a general alarm (horn/strobes) but must generate an audible supervisory trouble on the panel and annunciators. The individual AC units should also be wired to shut down when its duct detector goes into alarm. Fire departments should not be dispatched on this. There may be jurisdictions that require it, but they can't site the Code as the reason.

 

Thanks for the Forum,

 

Isaac Hayden

EF0001108

Florida

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Ken:

 

The DUCT DETECTORS are purely designed to SHUT DOWN THE HVAC SYSTEM and keep the system from spreading fire. As such they would send a SUPERVISORY SIGNAL. Duct smoke detectors are not a substitute for properly spaced and installed spot type detectors. (NFPA 72 specifies the minimum size of the AHU that would require DUCT SMOKE DETECTION.)

 

SOME AHJ's will insist on the Duct Detectors initiating a general alarm. This is on a case by case basis.

 

Joel Kent

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Response to Paul Gallo,  Marlectrics, Inc., Check with the AHJ. Sometimes that is the way they want it.

 

Mike Zemering

President FM Systems, Inc.

President MBFAA

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Not sure if this is the right place to respond.

 

In regards to the correct operation of Duct Detectors and the shut down of RTU’s, ask your local AHJ. I work in a relatively small area but still have to deal with several different AHJs each with differing view points. Some of my Fire Marshalls want general alarm on DDs while others prefer a supervisory condition. Most departments will respond quickly with a basic question such as this.

Alan Hunter

Technical Manager

Dillard Alarm Company

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Fire Alarm Technical Question

     The answer varies across the country.  NFPA-90A  Installation of Air Conditioning and Ventilating Systems requires shut down but in buildings with fire alarm requires supervisory alarm instead of general alarm.

        Some state fire codes such as West Virginia (87CSR1 87-1-11.1.8) require that the duct detectors to shut down the unit, close main dampers or go into smoke evac mode.  The duct smoke detector is also required to activate general alarm.

         I would suggest that anyone dealing in Fire Alarm Systems get copies of the Fire Codes and Building Codes applicable to their area of service.  If in doubt they should communicate with the appropriate Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).

John Garner

NICET Certification Number 95920

Fire Protection Engineering Technology

Fire Alarm Systems

Level IV

Electronic Specialty Company

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Ken on the fire alarm issue the duct detectors are suppose to do as he says go into alarm and latch in at that sound alarm and shut down fan also he should make sure they are wired so the fan shuts within and no run time, I have found where the hvac installer has wire the thermostat for the shut down and this will cause the fan to run until the heating jacket has cooled down. I would turn this report into the ahj so that he can enforce this correct wiring. Also there should be a remote on these units if they are not ready accessible. I have been installed and servicing fire alarms for over 25 years.

 

Dick Kutschbach

Chillicothe Fire & securey Inc.

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Duct Detectors do not necessarily initiate a general alarm.  Some codes require supervisory and other require alarm.  Suggest checking the relevant building code and that will point you in the direction of the appropriate standard.

 

Respectfully,

 

James M. Mundy, Jr.

CPP, CDT, CHS V, CSI, CFPS, mSFPE, SET

President

 

Asset Protection Associates, LTD

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Ken,

         In response to Paul’s question I have the following. The signals that a duct detector send are based on the building having sprinklers or not (at least in NC), but the AHJ has the final say. Normally if the building is protected by fire sprinklers the duct detectors are set to supervisory signaling only, if there are no sprinklers then the duct detectors will set a general alarm. The International Mechanical code says that the detectors only need to signal a supervisory condition when activated and will shut down all operational capabilities of the air handling system.

 Al

BVS Systems

Cornelius, NC

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?

In many cities duct smoke detectors are now REQUIRED to only activate a supervisory condition on the fire alarm panel, not a general alarm due to the number of false alarms they create. The HVAC shutdown is still required. In some cities. if one duct detector is activated, all hvac units serving that space must shutdown but again no general alarm. The monitoring company will get the supervisory alarm and notify the proper people.

 

Alan Raydo

Fire Detection Services, Kansas City

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Due to false alarm issues with duct detectors, nearly all jurisdictions insist the duct detectors be programmed as supervisory.

Roddy Bieber

Branch Manager

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Answer to fire alarm question.................... The answer to what the

sensors should do will be found in your local fire code, not your

instruction manual. Regardless of how these particular detectors

functioned, the detectors must function as per the accepted local fire

code and if they don't , then the appropriate action should be taken.

If there is a compliance issue and the customer is reluctant to comply

then the local AHJ should be brought into the fray.

There can be conflicts between the local mechanical, electrical and fire

codes. In states with strict licensing requirements and code enforcement

you may have detectors that were required to be installed by the

mechanical contractor and then connected by the electrical contractor

with no consideration or perhaps any requirement to connect to the fire

alarm system.

 

RW

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Ken,

 

In the older days we use to dispatch as an alarm.  However, the majority of the AHJ’s want the units to shut down and send a supervisory signal.  It is really better as the false fire dispatches have reduced dramatically on the duct detectors.

 

Thank you,

 

Robert Hakim

 

President

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Answer to your fire alarm question.  Fire codes can vary by county and state.  You should be able to get an answer from your local fire marshal.  They are usually the authority having jurisdiction, AHJ.

 

On a side note; although it is acceptable, I never test with a magnet.  It is not a true test of the device.  Take the extra time to remove the cover and blow smoke.

 

Tony Barlow

Pres/CEO

North Coast Signal Inc

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I would recommend to Paul that he look at NFPA 90A 6.4.4.2.1, which states that if smoke detectors are used solely for closing dampers, etc, then they shall not be required to activate the building evacuation alarm. NFPA 72 2002, 6.15.5.3 states that duct smoke detectors shall initiate EITHER an alarm signal at the protected premises or a SUPERVISORY (it does not say alarm signal, but rather just a supervisory signal) at a constantly attended location or supervising station.

THE NFPA 72 handbook clarifies that this is to prevent nuisance alarms. Much of the time, the duct detectors are not regularly serviced or cleaned. The dust accumulation can affect the performance of the detector and cause unwanted alarms. Thus, there are many “nuisance” alarms generated.

Having said all that, if I were a building owner, I would think that the best course of action is to have the duct detectors serviced regularly. Also, since “where there is smoke, there likely is fire”, I would want the fire department notified of the situation.

You might like to check with the local AHJ to see what might be required.

Gary Dawkins, CEO

 

Response Center USA

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RE: Fire Alarm Technical Question

 

Whether or not duct detectors initiate a general alarm condition or just a supervisory condition is up to the local AHJ and should reflect current code requirements. For instance, in south Florida, they recently changed the code to allow duct detectors to only trigger supervisory alerts instead of general alarms. The reasons being, they are NOT life safety devices and they almost always false alarm when we get the occasional streak of cold weather. What happens is people turn their heaters on (which generally haven't been used all year) and the dust burns off the coils which triggers false alarms. Eventually the fire depts realized this was causing too many nuisance alarms and modified the code. There may be different reasons in your area, you should check with your local AHJ to be sure.

Rich Norat

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Duct Detectors are to be supervisory, they do not sound the annunciating devices (horns, horn strobes, strobes).  They should annunciate at the Annunciator.  As far as shut down goes, the duct detectors are wired to shut down the unit it is connected to (down by mechanical and electrical contractors) Fire Alarm companies just monitor them.  Most AHJ’s ask for global shutdown which entails the Fire Alarm companies to provide relay(s) to do so.

Sean Bryant

Kern Security & Fire

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In reply to the Duct Detectors not activating the General alarm, there are a couple of issues here. First you did not indicate whether the duct detector alarm light actually activated with the magnet test. If not, then the FA panel would not have received any signal and no action would have resulted. If the detector was indeed activated and the FA panel went into Supervisory condition then that is the preferred output required by most all of the AHJ’s in our area. No general alarm should sound, but the air handlers should shut down if they are properly wired to do so. We have found that spraying canned smoke into the detector chamber to be an acceptable way to test the units if the magnet test fails. Final answer is make sure the detectors actually go into “alarm” and second find out what your local AHJ wants it to do when it does. If you know the FA panel in question, you should be able to look at the program and know what the output response is. 

Doug Hoff

Group Vice President

Tri-Signal Integration, Inc.

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Ken,

Please find the following from a recently published in the AFAANJ (Automatic Fire Alarm Association Fall 2009 Newsletter) on the  topic of duct smoke detection.  Please feel free to republish with credit.  The article can be found at; http://www.afaanj.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Tm3tqlctKlU%3d&tabid=533

Sincerely,

 

John Drucker