November 17, 2011
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Comments on licensing
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A statement with regard to state licensing
Ken
All this talk about licensing ”I am for it or against it".The bottom line is that legitimate companies only ask for a level playing field. In my experience with Pinnacle, where we maintain thousands of licenses (general business, tax, regulatory, individual) nationwide, a level playing field will never happen in a jurisdiction where a license is required unless the regulations are actually enforced. Enforcement is the key. If the law is on the books, but there is no enforcement, there will always be those companies and individuals which, out of ignorance, cost savings, or simply because they cannot qualify to be licensed, will always attempt to "fly under the radar". If the body regulating the industry in a certain jurisdiction cannot enforce its own law, it is better for the regulators to back off and let the market regulate itself. If an alarm company is doing a horrible job, its reputation will drive customers away and the company will eventually go under. To me the issue is not being for or against licensing. The issue is whether the laws being enforced and allow for a level playing field.
Rich
Pinnacle Security
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Ken
Everyone should have the opportunity to teach the NTS courses. The technical level of the students when they first arrive gives you insight to what an undereducated unlicensed installer let loose on the public would be like. Successful completion of any NTS course shows you what they have the ability to become. Almost all state licensing requires some classroom and supervised field experience.
Speaking for my state and its alarm association (CASIA). Our industry has been virtually left untouched by any regulation because we regulate ourselves. Where self regulation is absent the state is always willing to find a reason and a way to help correct the problem.
Respectfully,
John W. Yusza, Jr., President
Monitor Controls, Inc.
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Hi Ken;
I think as a society, we are lost. The storm of October 29th is a perfect example. I'm sick to death of people trying to deny the existence of a deity. I thought Dusan's comment "was God acting up?" was totally uncalled for. We continue trying to remove God from our lives and are paying for it in spades. We take God out of our schools and government buildings, and then wonder why evil like what happened on 9/11/01 we ask where was God? We can't have it both ways. I don't study the bible and cannot quote chapter and verse from various passages, but where it says that (paraphrased) whoever goes against the chosen people (the Jews) will not stand. Ask any WWII Nazis how that worked out for them.
I use your contracts and I believe they are a starting point in protecting ourselves in business. If I have a customer who suffers a catastrophic loss and say (God forbid..... Dusan did you catch that?) someone dies in a fire, your contract is going to help. Will it keep me from being successfully sued? Maybe, but it won't keep me from being sued. That's why we have insurance.
We live in a litigious society. Is it my fault if a limb takes out the power to a customer's home or business, is that in anyway my fault? NO. If I apprised my customer (doing due diligence) of latest communication formats, like a GSM cellular radio for alarm communications, that is only good for as long as the batteries last. If the cellular carrier goes down too because of a storm, is that in any way, shape or form my fault? I would say NO. I had two customers during that storm who lost their cellular communications with the central monitoring station. It was only a few hours, but it could have been worse. They didn't blame me, they understood. Why do we have to try and lay blame for anything and everything that happens?
John from NJ
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Hi Ken
I can't agree more with the listed Responses you recently posted on license, Gov., Economic Reprocussions You only can put so much gov. in place , Then like any business , it will fail from being top heavy.
There has always got to be a balance. To Solve the problem its very simple. The percent methodology , 20/80 , 1-5 , or managed success ratios If you create a position then you must have a revenue generating process in place that must not borrow, loan, take or need from another. Right now we have a 60/40 in place ( gov to public sector ) Just a matter of time before we cannot sustain the heavy weight . ( That’s Why We Keep Borrowing )
As for license , unlicensed . As long as the persons stay accountable , perform satisfactory, Do what they State , It Works ( Not the Norm of Humanity ) People always seek out what is best for them , Not The Customer ( To The level of Integrety or Belief Standards ) Laws Protect the Consumer , Contractor, Supplier, Employees. If we Pay only on Performance Valuation , By Schedule of Values , Pay thru Common Checking Payments , Each item get checked off as complete , all employees get paid thru common checking , All outside international agencys play same game , Same Rules , Same Field , then you protect all envolved .
Your right It Cost a Lot to play like this . The small guy will have to either manage better or work for the larger business. As a Owner of A Corp,DBA, Small Business I understand that licenses don't Say I know My stuff . But It allows the agencys to Find,Track,keep in check the actions of business.
Cff/ppp
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Ken,
Thanks for the great forum. Here , here, John from NJ. I believe in licensing also, but once I have that license and maintain all of the continuing education requirements, I should be free to engage in my profession without having to support some city government employee with all of the ridiculous permitting fees. We should be able to design a fire alarm and stamp it ourselves instead of having an electrical engineer who knows nothing of the fire code do it. We should have one inspection, a final, and it should be done by someone who knows about fire alarms, not someone who knows how to put out fires. How does that serve the community? Too many hands in the little guys pockets. And since humans are involved, you know someone is always abusive with that kind of power unfortunately. It really comes down to what is really freedom and the right to pursuit of happiness?
Ike
Florida
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In comment to this; (I am a general contractor and have been for 25 years)
To Steve Joos: The question was not about unlicensed general contractor. It was that general contractor is not licensed to install alarms, plumbing, electrical wiring, so the general contractor hires licensed people and that contradicts the "law???" which says that unlicensed contractor can not hire licensed contractor.
This is confusing. Put it this way: The GC hires you to install fire alarm and pays you. You don't get paid by the property owner - you get paid by GC who is not licensed to install alarm. The GC may be licensed general contractor or have home improvement license, but no alarm license.
Dusan
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Ken
This scenario is not much different than a father putting in a security system for his daughter, and I doubt you would have any issue with that. The general contractor is a liaison for the home owner (or prospective in some cases), he is hired as a professional to coordinate all of the processes of building or remodeling a project. My suggestion is to build an alliance with them, they can bring you more work if you do good work. There intentions should be good (if not, don't work for them). I am a hybrid in that I also do A/V and control systems (not alarms). I just had an article published which addresses this issue and would like to share it with you.
Article It is a quick one page article. http://www.mydigitalpublication.com/publication/?i=80056&p=92&search_str=larry%20heuvelman&search_str=larry%20heuvelman
Sometimes it is better to partner than to try to dominate.
Larry Heuvelman
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More on Storm mode policy / UL 827 Standards v An Act of God
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Dusan, anything that people don't understand or don't want to take responsibility for gets blamed on God. I've changed our terminology to "acts of nature", as nature is real and God is a concept. I'm surprised that in legal terms God is allowed in contract, as the concept cannot be proven as fact in a proper court of law.
Tom
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Storm is just an excuse to lousy service and infrastructure maintenance by utility providers. This is 21st Century. We should not live like in 17th Century. There is no reason, no excuse for. One single snowflake knocks out all communication, power and air travel? Give me a break. Want to see real snow? Go to Canada, Alaska, or Russian Siberia. Look at Japan. One tragedy after another and they deal with it. It is only here in the USA we calculate how many billions of damage was done - but we never repair the damage or prevent it from happening again.
Dusan
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